AnnA is a Fucking Stool-Pigeon

well said dude well said

arollo wrote:

Lurch wrote:

How can one consider action against buildings and machinery to be violence? The goal of both the ELF and the ALF is to stop the suffering of animals and the environment while also taking all possible precautions to not injure human life. The Wikipedia article says that Eric and the others "considered the killing of bystanders to be collateral damage", which is extremely fucked up and not something I condone at all. But really, sabotaging dams and fish hatcheries and cell phone towers as long as no one gets hurt (and as of today no one has been killed from an ELF action) isn't violence in my opinion. Companies that profit from the suffering of animals and the destruction of the Earth are the real terrorists.

Go ahead and label me a "revolutionary" or something.

Because it involves force to reach a goal. That's violence.

And blowing up one building does not stop the companies and the ideas behind them and the customers from keeping on. How many fish hatcheries are there? How does blowing one up solve whatever problem fish hatcheries pose? All it does is make you a terrorist, and imply further violence. And yes, when you blow up something to reach a political goal, people do presume the next bomb will be targeted at people. And that's violence too, of a kind.

And that's not revolutionary at all. People have been blowing shit up forever and ever. It's probably the least progressive idea a man can have.

kylemcdonald wrote:

i'm with you man.
the obliteration of useless human development is complete devotion to the need at hand
i may be considered a revolutionary but shit thats not needed is not shit at all.
and as a pacifist, violence may be needed to create a movement in modern america.
i don't condone violence in anyway but to create a disturbance and any kind of attention you have to create attention and sometimes it takes measures that are out of the ordinary.
we need to change this country at any means necessary

Why is it that violence and destruction are the only things you can think of when you think of "out of the ordinary"?

If you want to change the world, use your brain and your voice.

Name someone, somewhere who created a lasting change through violence. No, you are not a pacifist.

I'm against violence, but the American Revolution, War of 1812, The Civil War, WW1, and WW2. I stuck to American conflicts.

i just read the cross-examination of anna a few days ago. granted, I don't have too much other backround information on the case besides that and the few articles i've read, but i don't understand how a jury was able to convict Eric. in separate instances, both wren and jenson told anna that they thought she was the leader of the group. she was the one who convinced wren to go to cali, she was the one who picked up jenson. it really seems like she was the one actually convinced them to move past their talk and to act.

in that case, it's completely immoral to keep eric in prison. if i was on that jury, i would have fought long and hard to acquit him. and i wouldn't have folded.

Mark Narra wrote:

i just read the cross-examination of anna a few days ago. granted, I don't have too much other backround information on the case besides that and the few articles i've read, but i don't understand how a jury was able to convict Eric. in separate instances, both wren and jenson told anna that they thought she was the leader of the group. she was the one who convinced wren to go to cali, she was the one who picked up jenson. it really seems like she was the one actually convinced them to move past their talk and to act.

in that case, it's completely immoral to keep eric in prison. if i was on that jury, i would have fought long and hard to acquit him. and i wouldn't have folded.

I agree. Does anyone know if he hired a good lawyer, or just used the public defender? It sounds as if his attorney did a poor job defending him.

walking_for_don wrote:

better watch what ur saying.... there are more stool pigeons about.... patriot act ftw w00t!!!

Hahahaha, true enough...

Jozsa wrote:

Mark Narra wrote:

i just read the cross-examination of anna a few days ago. granted, I don't have too much other backround information on the case besides that and the few articles i've read, but i don't understand how a jury was able to convict Eric. in separate instances, both wren and jenson told anna that they thought she was the leader of the group. she was the one who convinced wren to go to cali, she was the one who picked up jenson. it really seems like she was the one actually convinced them to move past their talk and to act.

in that case, it's completely immoral to keep eric in prison. if i was on that jury, i would have fought long and hard to acquit him. and i wouldn't have folded.

I agree. Does anyone know if he hired a good lawyer, or just used the public defender? It sounds as if his attorney did a poor job defending him.

his lawyer has represented "ecoterrorists" in the past. he seemed to know what he was talking about.

Do you know what defense his attorney used? Entrapment?

I'm not sure if Mark posted the link but here's the cross examination

http://www.supporteric.org/xofanna.pdf

I haven't read it all yet, it's really long.

I read depositions allll day, and that's a long one even by my standards.

it's a quick, informative read, though. only took me an hour.

the redirect is kinda juicy, too.

"Convergence – an anarchist convention – in Winona, Minnesota, where he threatened to kill the FBI source "Anna" if she was, in fact, working with law enforcement, before divulging his plans"
??

I found this, and I thought it was interesting. It's the first time I'd really read Tom explain why he wrote the song.

The centerpiece of the EP is "Anna Is A Stool Pigeon," which Gabel wrote after reading about environmental activist Eric McDavid (www.supporteric.org) who was convicted in 2007 of conspiring to use explosives to damage corporate and government property after being implicated by an undercover FBI informant who posed as an activist. McDavid's defense has argued that he was the victim of entrapment. He currently faces a sentence of up to 20 years in prison.

"What struck me most about the story was a sense of familiarity," Gabel says. "I know the scene he was a part of, I used to be a part of it myself. I've thought the same thoughts, talked the same talk. I've hung out with the same people, gone to similar protests. If Eric could have become the target of an FBI sting operation, then so could I. This could have been me."

lauren wrote:

The centerpiece of the EP is "Anna Is A Stool Pigeon," which Gabel wrote after reading about environmental activist Eric McDavid (www.supporteric.org) who was convicted in 2007 of conspiring to use explosives to damage corporate and government property after being implicated by an undercover FBI informant who posed as an activist. McDavid's defense has argued that he was the victim of entrapment. He currently faces a sentence of up to 20 years in prison.

"What struck me most about the story was a sense of familiarity," Gabel says. "I know the scene he was a part of, I used to be a part of it myself. I've thought the same thoughts, talked the same talk. I've hung out with the same people, gone to similar protests. If Eric could have become the target of an FBI sting operation, then so could I. This could have been me."

Yeah, but that's not a case of the government opressing it's citizenry. It's not like the case of the police spying on anti-war groups or grandma's knitting circle. I'm having a hard time understanding the outrage people have that *gasp* a man went to jail for planning to blow shit up.

And now there's a song about it, and all the kids are going to find a new cause to root for and not once, ever, think an independent thought. Thanks, pop music, for making the world a better place.

dont know if anyone posted this...pretty interesting/fucked up..havent been on the forum in a while so hopefully i'm not double posting

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=80311

http://www.supporteric.org/background.htm

Why do you have to link me to these things damnit!?

I finally get a couple of days off work to relax a bit, listen to some records and surf the forums and you gotta fuck it all up..

Now I'm pissed off and I want to stab politicians.. (As if I didn't want to stab politicians before...)

Free Eric McDavid and Kevin Kjonaas for fuck sakes...

Dad; ever the devil's advocate.

<3

Ross wrote:

Dad; ever the devil's advocate.

<3

I'm not playing devil's advocate. I am actually saying that this guy should be in prison. And I think it's really, really disturbing to hear a song in praise of terrorism dressed up like a half-assed love song.

The thing is, these kids would have never done any of the things that they got busted for if it wasn't for a government agent egging them on and not to mention the government funding it.. They talked the talk, they wouldn't have walked the walk without the FBI entaginist and they could have never afforded it if the government didn't pay for it. Is this what are tax dollars are paying for? Really? A cottage, some plane tickets, food, and 75 grand paycheck for a some FBI agent to bust three young anarchist kids who feel that their current government sucks and talk about doing something about it? It's pretty retarded..

I can see busting people that want to blow shit up and have the means of doing so. But to me it seems like these kids wouldn't have done anything without the FBI backing them, emotional and financially the whole way. They were in different states for fuck sakes.. They probably couldn't afford pop-rocks and soda, let alone plane tickets and a cottage to scheme in.

see Sarah Palin pictures

See: Family Guy
re: the right to bear arms

iloveyourmom wrote:

Free Kevin Kjonaas for fuck sakes...

i love you. will you marry me?

i know there is a lot of bullshit surrounding this topic. but i wrote Eric a letter anyway. regardless of what he would have done with or without anna still doesn't make the way he has been treated any less wrong. has anyone else done this/

I just got done reading the entire Cross examination of Anna, wow, ridiculous. Also, this stuck out to me
(From Mr. Lapham to 'Anna')

"Q. How about any other members of the conspiracy?
A. Zachary Jenson expressed a romantic interest in Eric
McDavid.
Q. Did McDavid ever indicate to you that he had similar
feelings?
A. It was understood to the group that Zachary Jenson
and Eric McDavid might be romantically involved.
Q. Do you recall any specific conversations either with
Mr. Jenson or Mr. McDavid?
A. Yes. Yes. At the biotech conference, Zachary Jenson
made the comment, quote, D, when you get drunk, you get very horny, and McDavid laughed, and he turned to Jenson and said, yes, but you like it.
"

WHHHHAT? That is not expressing romantic feelings, ten bucks say it was in a completely joking way. In fact, my friends and I say shit like that all the time. She took it WAY out of context. Just one of the many things.

be careful what you think, be careful what you say
it might be used against you in court one day.

well, i don't think this was one of the big issues in this case..

NuclearPants wrote:

I just got done reading the entire Cross examination of Anna, wow, ridiculous. Also, this stuck out to me
(From Mr. Lapham to 'Anna')

"Q. How about any other members of the conspiracy?
A. Zachary Jenson expressed a romantic interest in Eric
McDavid.
Q. Did McDavid ever indicate to you that he had similar
feelings?
A. It was understood to the group that Zachary Jenson
and Eric McDavid might be romantically involved.
Q. Do you recall any specific conversations either with
Mr. Jenson or Mr. McDavid?
A. Yes. Yes. At the biotech conference, Zachary Jenson
made the comment, quote, D, when you get drunk, you get very horny, and McDavid laughed, and he turned to Jenson and said, yes, but you like it.
"

WHHHHAT? That is not expressing romantic feelings, ten bucks say it was in a completely joking way. In fact, my friends and I say shit like that all the time. She took it WAY out of context. Just one of the many things.

Horrible, isn't it. :/