Because of the Shame

I wonder if the lyrics were written as a creative concept type of thing, or a true story about an ex girlfriend or wife actually dying?

I read it was a sequel to Thrash Unreal.

Yeah that's a cool way to look at it. Personally, I see Thrash Unreal as a lady in her 40's, used to have a lot of friend's and had supportive family, got into the 70's/80's rock scene and fell into drugs, then lost everything but she still lives with what she has and doesn't give a fuck, but she wishes that there were these young guys in the current scene who understood and respected her, so Against Me writes a song for her and it makes her feel happy when she hears it on the radio in the strip bar change room. There must be a few thousand of these ladies out there so it's such a good song. Just my opinion again! Because Of The Shame, it seems like it's a younger girl who he had a personal relationship with, where Thrash Unreal was more metaphorical?

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Yeah that's a cool way to look at it. Personally, I see Thrash Unreal as a lady in her 40's, used to have a lot of friend's and had supportive family, got into the 70's/80's rock scene and fell into drugs, then lost everything but she still lives with what she has and doesn't give a fuck, but she wishes that there were these young guys in the current scene who understood and respected her, so Against Me writes a song for her and it makes her feel happy when she hears it on the radio in the strip bar change room. There must be a few thousand of these ladies out there so it's such a good song. Just my opinion again! Because Of The Shame, it seems like it's a younger girl who he had a personal relationship with, where Thrash Unreal was more metaphorical?

But she IS in her 20s, isn't she?

DavyGrolton wrote:

I'm so fucking pissed it's been up since April 28th of 2009.

2009.

It's a live version of a song that DOESNT Exist anymore.

Jesus Christ. I hate major labels.

I don't blame them for signing I just hate the whole "god forbid music be shared" thing.

can't ya reupload it?

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

It sounds a lot like she is in her twenties and drugs have made her look older than she is, when she tries to reintroduce herself to going out to clubs, to me.

AarnKrry wrote:

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

It sounds a lot like she is in her twenties and drugs have made her look older than she is, when she tries to reintroduce herself to going out to clubs, to me.

She can still hear that rebel yell just as loud as it was in 1983.

This puts her in her late 30's - early 40's

Clint wrote:

AarnKrry wrote:

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

It sounds a lot like she is in her twenties and drugs have made her look older than she is, when she tries to reintroduce herself to going out to clubs, to me.

She can still hear that rebel yell just as loud as it was in 1983.

This puts her in her late 30's - early 40's

That's just a reference to the song Rebel Yell, isn't it?

AarnKrry wrote:

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

It sounds a lot like she is in her twenties and drugs have made her look older than she is, when she tries to reintroduce herself to going out to clubs, to me.

I think they meant shes gotten to a stage where she can't cover up the fact shes not in her twenties, drugs being partly why. The "she can still hear that rebel yell just as loud as it was in 1983" is a reference to the Billy Idol song/album, she being in her early 20's when it was released. I thought that confirmed she was likely in her 40's

AarnKrry wrote:

Clint wrote:

AarnKrry wrote:

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

It sounds a lot like she is in her twenties and drugs have made her look older than she is, when she tries to reintroduce herself to going out to clubs, to me.

She can still hear that rebel yell just as loud as it was in 1983.

This puts her in her late 30's - early 40's

That's just a reference to the song Rebel Yell, isn't it?

Yeah, but the key word is "still"

Clint wrote:

AarnKrry wrote:

Clint wrote:

AarnKrry wrote:

Grizzly Adams wrote:

Nah she's definitely older. "You reach a point where there’s not a lie in the world that you could use to make the boys believe you're still in you twenties" is saying that you're getting older and the younger guys can tell.

It sounds a lot like she is in her twenties and drugs have made her look older than she is, when she tries to reintroduce herself to going out to clubs, to me.

She can still hear that rebel yell just as loud as it was in 1983.

This puts her in her late 30's - early 40's

That's just a reference to the song Rebel Yell, isn't it?

Yeah, but the key word is "still"

Yeah, but.

Who thinks she's a stripper?

No.

tom answered this in an interview quite a while ago. i dont know who did the interview, but the woman in the song was a waitress at a diner. he said that he was at a table, and wondered what her back story was, so began the song "Thrash Unreal"

brayhold wrote:

tom answered this in an interview quite a while ago. i dont know who did the interview, but the woman in the song was a waitress at a diner. he said that he was at a table, and wondered what her back story was, so began the song "Thrash Unreal"

I heard the same story, but I don’t think it was a waitress. My paraphrase -He said he was a shitty diner (think Dennys, but worse) and it was about the time when the bars let out. Some older woman was there and was flirting with the waiter or something. That’s how I remember it.

Update:
I found it on the forum, but I can’t find the interview link. I didn’t really look that hard though.

"I was having a conversation with Butch one day on the phone about where we were at with the songwriting. He suggested trying a different direction… specifically I should try writing a song that was a cross between “Rebel, Rebel” and “Walk On The Wild Side.” So the “Ba ba-ba’s” in the chorus are Lou Reed’s “The colored girls singing ‘Do, do-do, do-do.” The story in lyrics first started coming to me one night when I was sitting at the Clock Restaurant, a shitty 24 diner—think Denny’s but worse—in Gainesville. It was a little after two in the morning and the bars had just let out. There was one woman up at the counter talking with a couple of the guys that were sitting there. She looked to be in her late 40s, early 50s. I could tell she had been out partying, drinking. I started making up a story to go along with her in my head."

Jozsa wrote:

brayhold wrote:

tom answered this in an interview quite a while ago. i dont know who did the interview, but the woman in the song was a waitress at a diner. he said that he was at a table, and wondered what her back story was, so began the song "Thrash Unreal"

I heard the same story, but I don’t think it was a waitress. My paraphrase -He said he was a shitty diner (think Dennys, but worse) and it was about the time when the bars let out. Some older woman was there and was flirting with the waiter or something. That’s how I remember it.

Update:
I found it on the forum, but I can’t find the interview link. I didn’t really look that hard though.

"I was having a conversation with Butch one day on the phone about where we were at with the songwriting. He suggested trying a different direction… specifically I should try writing a song that was a cross between “Rebel, Rebel” and “Walk On The Wild Side.” So the “Ba ba-ba’s” in the chorus are Lou Reed’s “The colored girls singing ‘Do, do-do, do-do.” The story in lyrics first started coming to me one night when I was sitting at the Clock Restaurant, a shitty 24 diner—think Denny’s but worse—in Gainesville. It was a little after two in the morning and the bars had just let out. There was one woman up at the counter talking with a couple of the guys that were sitting there. She looked to be in her late 40s, early 50s. I could tell she had been out partying, drinking. I started making up a story to go along with her in my head."

"He suggested trying a different direction."
Yeah guys, you're right, Butch totally had NOTHING to do with AM! changing their sound.

Do I get a negative for that, too? Is criticizing Butch Vig also off-limits?

dannyglover wrote:

Jozsa wrote:

brayhold wrote:

tom answered this in an interview quite a while ago. i dont know who did the interview, but the woman in the song was a waitress at a diner. he said that he was at a table, and wondered what her back story was, so began the song "Thrash Unreal"

I heard the same story, but I don’t think it was a waitress. My paraphrase -He said he was a shitty diner (think Dennys, but worse) and it was about the time when the bars let out. Some older woman was there and was flirting with the waiter or something. That’s how I remember it.

Update:
I found it on the forum, but I can’t find the interview link. I didn’t really look that hard though.

"I was having a conversation with Butch one day on the phone about where we were at with the songwriting. He suggested trying a different direction… specifically I should try writing a song that was a cross between “Rebel, Rebel” and “Walk On The Wild Side.” So the “Ba ba-ba’s” in the chorus are Lou Reed’s “The colored girls singing ‘Do, do-do, do-do.” The story in lyrics first started coming to me one night when I was sitting at the Clock Restaurant, a shitty 24 diner—think Denny’s but worse—in Gainesville. It was a little after two in the morning and the bars had just let out. There was one woman up at the counter talking with a couple of the guys that were sitting there. She looked to be in her late 40s, early 50s. I could tell she had been out partying, drinking. I started making up a story to go along with her in my head."

"He suggested trying a different direction."
Yeah guys, you're right, Butch totally had NOTHING to do with AM! changing their sound.

Oh, sweet Jesus.

Fuck off

AarnKrry wrote:

dannyglover wrote:

Jozsa wrote:

brayhold wrote:

tom answered this in an interview quite a while ago. i dont know who did the interview, but the woman in the song was a waitress at a diner. he said that he was at a table, and wondered what her back story was, so began the song "Thrash Unreal"

I heard the same story, but I don’t think it was a waitress. My paraphrase -He said he was a shitty diner (think Dennys, but worse) and it was about the time when the bars let out. Some older woman was there and was flirting with the waiter or something. That’s how I remember it.

Update:
I found it on the forum, but I can’t find the interview link. I didn’t really look that hard though.

"I was having a conversation with Butch one day on the phone about where we were at with the songwriting. He suggested trying a different direction… specifically I should try writing a song that was a cross between “Rebel, Rebel” and “Walk On The Wild Side.” So the “Ba ba-ba’s” in the chorus are Lou Reed’s “The colored girls singing ‘Do, do-do, do-do.” The story in lyrics first started coming to me one night when I was sitting at the Clock Restaurant, a shitty 24 diner—think Denny’s but worse—in Gainesville. It was a little after two in the morning and the bars had just let out. There was one woman up at the counter talking with a couple of the guys that were sitting there. She looked to be in her late 40s, early 50s. I could tell she had been out partying, drinking. I started making up a story to go along with her in my head."

"He suggested trying a different direction."
Yeah guys, you're right, Butch totally had NOTHING to do with AM! changing their sound.

Oh, sweet Jesus.

Fuck off

You're right, man. Sorry. They're so much better than they used to be.

It's your own fucking opinion, can you not get that into your fucking skull?

Well no, he didn’t ‘ have a major role, at least with New Wave. Tom said in an interview, "With 'Searching for a Former Clarity,' I felt a lot of the songs relied on the songs before or afterwards both lyrically and musically. They only made sense in the context of the record," he says. "With ['New Wave'], I just wanted to write good individual songs that stood on their own.”

I think the same thing is true with White Crosses.

http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs#/news/against-me-optimistic-but-defiant-on-sire-1003580407.story

I could never possibly explain or recreate the feeling I had the first time I heard the studio version of this <3

The studio version of Because of the Shame is one of the few songs on the album that I think is effing suhweet and better than the live versions I heard.

I just read in an article that he wrote this song about a girl he knew while growing up, and when she heard "Thrash Unreal" she thought it was about her, and committed suicide. And he wrote "Because of the Shame" about her after attending her funeral, and speaking to her mother. That's really sad, especially because the song isn't even about her..I believe the interview is in the newest SPIN magazine..