Feminists

isnt it just a cute picture

I think feminism is stupid. I think it's one of those constant battles. People are always a little sexist, men and women alike. It happens, you say stupid things sometimes, whatever. I think there should be more equality both ways. Women constantly battle for equality, but if a guy's get in fights all the time, hitting each other and whatever, but if a guy was to punch a woman, she would say you're not suppose to hit women, or something. That's a harsh example, but I'm trying to get a point across that I can't really get across any other way.

I think we should just keep living and be good to one another, race, sex, or preference aside.

drinkingirish wrote:

women will never get the rights they are long overdue for.

What rights do women not have? Just curious

Quote :

I think we should just keep living and be good to one another, race, sex, or preference aside.

...and that's the point of feminism. Women aren't being treated equal, they get paid less on the dollar for doing the exact same job as a man. I don't really understand what you mean about the fighting thing, but yeah a guy shouldn't punch a woman because we're physically weaker than men and can't defend ourselves. I don't think guys should punch each other either, fighting is usually not the way to deal with things.

On a side note about the fighting thing: I do think it's shitty for men to hit women because, like Lex said, women generally aren't as strong as men, can't hit as hard, etc. I also think it's shitty for a man to hit a man who's much smaller and weaker than him. But there's also the fact that when you bring up the idea of a man hitting a woman, there's also the issue of men who abuse their girlfriends/wives, which is a much bigger thing than just throwing a punch at someone.

I just think it's shitty for anyone to fight with anyone else. When my brother and I were young and lived in Santa Cruz, he got beat up all the time in elementary school. We would be walking home from school together, and boys who didn't like him would come to us and punch him in the stomach or something, and then just leave. I was only 6 at the time, so it's not like I knew what to do. Often times they were the same size as my brother and he could have hit them back, but he never did because my brother isn't a violent person. Abusive relationships make me sick, and while most of them tend to be men hurting women, people forget that there are women out there who abuse their boyfriends as well. Maybe that's what Nuclear Pants was trying to say, I didn't really understand his post.

NuclearPants wrote:

drinkingirish wrote:

women will never get the rights they are long overdue for.

What rights do women not have? Just curious

We may have the same rights, but I'd definitely say those rights get violated. The sexual exploitation of women's bodies all over the media is just one example. I'd like to say it doesn't affect me at all, but I know deep down it does. Certain people are deeply affected by it, so much that they feel they have to change their bodies to be accepted by men. It boggles my mind, I can watch a show about the dangers of eating disorders and then 2 hours later the same channel is showing 'hottest celebrity bodies!' and glorifying a single body type.

the problem I have, is, I've never personally seen a woman get treated any differently than a man, except in relationships, which piss me off. I hate it when a man is not treating a woman the way she should be. But professionally, etc, I don't know, I've never had a co-worker making less than me, or complain before. I just don't run into problems where they are being treated un-equally. It's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's harder for me to grasp the concept.

yeah, I really hate this though too...



Because of course, every man is so rugged and sexy, so ripped and such.

I know what you mean, but it seems when it's a man, in an ad like that, no one cares, but if it's a woman, suddenly it's a big deal, it's scandalous, it's trampy, it violates her personal rights, etc. I don't know, I really don't know what I'm saying anymore, I'll just stay out of this then.

yeah, that kind of looks like me

me to

I took a sociology class last year on the media and the stereotypes it places on men & women, both. We spent half the class basically comparing ads that portray the stereotypes of men and women. It's bullshit that this perfect body image is being projected on anyone at all, male or female. Something I thought was interesting though was the constant use of words and images to show that men are strong, and women are weak. Men are the heroes, women are the damsels in distress. Just look at ads that show men and women together. It's all very subtle, but you'll usually see the man standing tall and proud, while the women is laying at his feet admiring how handsome he is. It's all marketing, though. It starts from the time we're children. Girls are dressed in soft colors, boys are dressed in solid colors. Dolls are sold to girls, trucks are sold to boys. It's become a machine, but that doesn't mean that people have to buy into it in their personal lives.

While that's also fucked up, the difference is that standards for male models aren't as dangerous to the model as standards for female models. At recent fashion shows in Europe, female models averaged at 5'10" and 110 pounds; male models averaged at 5'11"-6'2" and weighed an average of 140-170 pounds. Is that still fairly unrealistic? Yeah. People do come in all shapes and sizes, and 5'11" and 140 pounds is quite thin.

But 110 pounds at 5'10" is not healthy in any way. I'm 5'8" and 140, and while I'm a fairly chubby person, I'm pretty sure 110 would kill me. And these girls are even a bit taller than me, so if that weight would be dangerous to me, it's certainly dangerous for them too.

Don't get me wrong, I think advertising that portrays men in that way is harmful too; body image issues apply to everyone, and I dislike advertising in general. I'm just pointing out that there is a reason that people generally focus on female models.

ETA: this was a response to NuclearPants's post, I was just too lazy to quote.

NuclearPants wrote:

Because of course, every man is so rugged and sexy, so ripped and such.

I know what you mean, but it seems when it's a man, in an ad like that, no one cares, but if it's a woman, suddenly it's a big deal, it's scandalous, it's trampy, it violates her personal rights, etc. I don't know, I really don't know what I'm saying anymore, I'll just stay out of this then.

I care when I see ads like that depicting men, I think they're really cheesy and lame. I don't have one guy friend that looks like that..those men are robots. I think feminism is something that is meant for women AND men. It's not just about women being treated badly, it's about working to make everyone be treated the same. I wish that when I went to shows, I didn't have to see 20 year old dudes calling 14 year old girls "dumb bitches" for getting in their way, and I wish that more of my friends believed in me when I told them I wanted to work in the music industry. I guess I'm not capable of that, though, since I have ovaries and all. On the other hand, I wish my girl friends would stop trying to date guys with big muscles, not because they find it attractive, but because they think it's impressive or they feel the need to be with a guy that can "protect" them. That's fucking lame.

My girlfriend's mom tells her to marry a football player to protect her

Or maybe your girlfriend could just take karate lessons and learn how to protect herself. I hate shit like that, I don't need a guy to protect me, let alone a "football" player. WEAK SAUCE.

I want a man who will protect me and who will let me protect him.

s'all about looking out for each other.

for the record, those pictures posted? Those guys are not attractive.

ClockworkRobot wrote:

for the record, those pictures posted? Those guys are not attractive.

Thats what i was thinking.

Shawn! wrote:

ClockworkRobot wrote:

for the record, those pictures posted? Those guys are not attractive.

Thats what i was thinking.

And I don't think that female models in magazines and such are attractive, but both sexes have these images thrown at them and neither is correct. Gender roles suck and they all contribute to abuse and bullshit like the 40 yr old guy hitting on his 16 yr old waitress and the guy who wears a turtleneck getting called a queer and getting beaten up behind school. It's all fucking stupid. I got grounded in 8th grade because I didn't want to play for the middle school football team.

NuPants: Rights probably was the wrong word, opportunities would have been more correct.

I've seen it multiple times (involving my sister breaking into the banking field) where a woman gets a worse job or can't get a job at all either because she's a woman or because she's not pretty enough. On the other side, I've also been denied employment because I'm a man.

Billy: I'm 5'11'' + and 145. Everyone I know tells me how skinny I am and I work a physically demanding job. I honestly don't think I could lose another pound if I had to. It seems like the standards for male models aren't healthy at all either.....

Damn it I'm long winded, but this is such an important topic to me and I'm kind of in "life sucks" mode.

Smileys for everyone!!!!

if ya'll don't think girls could hit hard, you should start some static with my girlfriend. woostah woostah, son.

im know a professional female boxer, who is currently undefeated, and i would not ever fuck with her.
she would kick the absolute shit out of me.

that's the sexiest thing i've ever heard.

I can give a mean monkey bump. My dad taught me how to do it when I was little, and I have since perfected the art.

billy pilgrim wrote:

While that's also fucked up, the difference is that standards for male models aren't as dangerous to the model as standards for female models. At recent fashion shows in Europe, female models averaged at 5'10" and 110 pounds; male models averaged at 5'11"-6'2" and weighed an average of 140-170 pounds. Is that still fairly unrealistic? Yeah. People do come in all shapes and sizes, and 5'11" and 140 pounds is quite thin.

But 110 pounds at 5'10" is not healthy in any way. I'm 5'8" and 140, and while I'm a fairly chubby person, I'm pretty sure 110 would kill me. And these girls are even a bit taller than me, so if that weight would be dangerous to me, it's certainly dangerous for them too.

Don't get me wrong, I think advertising that portrays men in that way is harmful too; body image issues apply to everyone, and I dislike advertising in general. I'm just pointing out that there is a reason that people generally focus on female models.

ETA: this was a response to NuclearPants's post, I was just too lazy to quote.

Shit are you serious? I'm a little over 5'10 and the lowest I've weighed is 130 pounds and I looked disgusting and sickly. I cannot imagine weighing 110 pounds, those poor bodies!

It's what I saw on wikipedia--I know that's not 100% foolproof, but I've seen pictures and read other articles that say basically the same, like a girl who was 6'2" who was told she needed to drop from a size 4 to a 2, so it sounds about right.