Feminists

So, I'm taking this Women's Health class at school. Thankfully it's online, so I can yell at people via keyboard. But honestly, some of the things these girl's say make me crazy. I'm not some bra burner or anything, but come on.

Quote :

I feel that there is inequality among men and women today and to be honest, I am okay with it. Men and woman are not equal, which makes it very hard to treat them so.

That was the beginning of this girl's response to the question. Sure, men and women are different. We're built different physically, I don't have a penis ..but not equal? I'm hoping she just used the wrong wording there, but I'm definitely going to respond to that one. What do you guys think of feminists? I wish arollo was still around, he'd write some huge essay arguing with me and it'd be fun. But seeing as a lot of the people here are guys, it'd be interesting to see what you have to say.

That reminds me of my class last night, sociology. We were talking about the importance of feminism and some girl was saying that it's more stressful for women nowadays because not only do we have to take care of the children, but we also feel forced to work jobs that men are "SUPPOSED" to do, and it's not fair that we have to work hard jobs. What the fuck? That mindset makes me sad - that women aren't ~supposed~ to work certain jobs just because a man typically does them. I'll work any job that I want to. Fuck it, I'll become a garbage woman! It doesn't matter. Also, I don't understand why my mom has worked her ass off for the same company for over 10 years, and she's STILL getting paid less than her male counterparts who do the exact same thing as her, and have worked there for a much shorter time. Fuck that.

Feminists are alright with me. I don't really mind what they have to say, because a lot of it is true. I mean, with hundreds of years of history of women being treated as a lesser-than to men, it's a hard fight to correct that. And I understand that.

But sometimes, they over do it. I mean, I want men and women to be equal, but when feminists start going too far with equality, that's when I have a problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2006/09/22/hockey-decision.html

In my hometown, these 2 girls wanted to play on the boys hockey team because the girls team sucked. They weren't allowed to tryout, so they took it to court, won the right to try out (but if I remember correctly they still weren't good enough to play on the boys team, so they got cut). They played on men's hockey teams outside of school.

Okay, the problem with this is that while people are fighting for equality rights, I think something as plainly black and white such as "MEN'S HOCKEY TEAM, SOCCER TEAM, FOOTBALL LEAGUE, ETC." should stay, and then "WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM, SOCCER TEAM, LEAGUES, ETC." stay that way too.

Uhhh. What's the wording I'm looking for. I mean, for sports, if it's going to go based on gender, then that's good. I think it should stay that way, because even as YOU said lex, men and women are NOT built the same physically.

And besides, if a guy wasn't a good enough player to make the tryouts for the men's team, would that mean that he is allowed to tryout for the girls team if the skill level isn't as high?

Not trying to start an internet fight here or anything, but if that ever happened (a guy wanting to tryout for a girls team because he got cut from the guys), there would be SUCH A SHIT STORM in the media and what not, and people saying that "isn't fair".

Just my two cents.

I agree with you, and I also get annoyed by people who take things too far. Sometimes people forget that they want EQUAL rights, and they start fighting for SPECIAL rights instead, and it defeats the purpose.

lauren wrote:

Sometimes people forget that they want EQUAL rights, and they start fighting for SPECIAL rights instead, and it defeats the purpose.

THAT'S exactly what I'm trying to say.

I have nothing wrong with women's sports teams and men's sports teams. They aren't segregated that way because men are better, they're segregated because men are built different, and play rougher. But I still say give the girls the chance to try out, they'll get cut if they don't meet the standards, just like anyone else trying out.

haha every time this subject comes up somewhere its hard for me to say anything without sounding like a dick.

Just say what you feel! I might call you a dick, but deep down I still love you so it's alright. I already have 3 replies to my response in class, I'm scared to read them.

Johnny99 wrote:

haha every time this subject comes up somewhere its hard for me to say anything without sounding like a dick.

Yeah, I know what you mean. And I don't mean to insult anybody here, but there are sometimes those feminists that are way too sensitive and take everything you say about feminism, equality, etc. totally the wrong way. But seriously, just speak your opinion, but make sure you're backing it up as well. That way nobody can really hate on you for it, because it's your opinion, and you're backing it the best you can.

I think a lot of times people are just too paranoid about hurting someone's feelings. Of course I'm not condoning everyone being a dick, but don't censor what you feel. If it offends me, I'll be sure to let you know, but you have your right to an opinion just like I have mine.

Responding to Lauren's first post:

The biggest problem with what that girl said was "supposed." No one should be led to believe that they are "supposed" to do anything, whether they be man, woman, gay, straight, rich, poor, etc......

I'm a huge feminist as well as a supporter of gay rights because I think they're problems that are intertwined. Without breaking down the macho, homophobic, hypermasculine culture that has developed, women will never get the rights they are long overdue for. If a little boy wants to wear pink and play with barbies, let him. If a little girl wants to wear blue jeans and play with tonka trucks, let her. There is no such thing as a tom boy, or a queer. There are just people and people are different for different reasons and that's why people can be awesome.

TV and movies are evil. Women are still helpless, needy, and whiney in popular media and men are still overbearing, protective, and have no feelings. The vast majority of people do not fit cleanly into gender roles naturally, but get pushed there so easily by peer pressure and other shit that is shoved down their throats by people around them like their parents. My dad thinks that every time I go to an event/meeting about gay rights that I'm going to "turn gay" and he gets pissed at me so easily. It's ridiculous.

There's an obnoxious double standard when it comes to appearance. I hate when my 110 pound friends who insist that they need to lose weight while.

I have strong feelings about feminism...... Could've kept going, but no one likes 3 page posts.

In my art class last year we ended up on a discussion of feminism and one of the guys in the class said something I definitely agree with. He said one of his friends was a firefighter, and his friend said he had no problems with a woman having the same job as him, if she were capable of passing the same fitness requirements that the men were. This is a case where something like that's definitely appropriate; you don't want someone who doesn't have the required upper body strength to try to carry someone down a ladder out of a burning building or something, no matter what their sex is.

As for sports teams, I think that in a case where there's only one team available (for instance, at my high school there was girls and boys basketball, but only one football team) then the girls should be allowed to try out because they don't have an opportunity to play on their own team.

At the risk of turning this post into a novel, I think the idea that women are "supposed" to do something is an enormous part of the problem, whether it's that they're "supposed" to stay at home and cook and clean or that they're "supposed" to get certain kinds of jobs. My mom was a stay-at-home mom for a bunch of years while my brothers and I were younger, because there's three of us and she didn't want to send us to daycare all the time. I don't think that was a decision that hurt feminism or anything, I think it was a decision that was right for her to make at the time. And this whole paragraph goes for men too; the problem of gender roles affects everyone.

drinkingirish wrote:

I'm a huge feminist as well as a supporter of gay rights because I think they're problems that are intertwined. Without breaking down the macho, homophobic, hypermasculine culture that has developed, women will never get the rights they are long overdue for. If a little boy wants to wear pink and play with barbies, let him. If a little girl wants to wear blue jeans and play with tonka trucks, let her. There is no such thing as a tom boy, or a queer. There are just people and people are different for different reasons and that's why people can be awesome.

Very, very well said. I could not agree with you more. I know the whole arguement against labels is pretty much cliched by now, but it still bothers me that gender roles are so cut and dry.

drinkingirish wrote:

Responding to Lauren's first post:

The biggest problem with what that girl said was "supposed." No one should be led to believe that they are "supposed" to do anything, whether they be man, woman, gay, straight, rich, poor, etc......

I'm a huge feminist as well as a supporter of gay rights because I think they're problems that are intertwined. Without breaking down the macho, homophobic, hypermasculine culture that has developed, women will never get the rights they are long overdue for. If a little boy wants to wear pink and play with barbies, let him. If a little girl wants to wear blue jeans and play with tonka trucks, let her. There is no such thing as a tom boy, or a queer. There are just people and people are different for different reasons and that's why people can be awesome.

TV and movies are evil. Women are still helpless, needy, and whiney in popular media and men are still overbearing, protective, and have no feelings. The vast majority of people do not fit cleanly into gender roles naturally, but get pushed there so easily by peer pressure and other shit that is shoved down their throats by people around them like their parents. My dad thinks that every time I go to an event/meeting about gay rights that I'm going to "turn gay" and he gets pissed at me so easily. It's ridiculous.

There's an obnoxious double standard when it comes to appearance. I hate when my 110 pound friends who insist that they need to lose weight while.

I have strong feelings about feminism...... Could've kept going, but no one likes 3 page posts.

you're amazing. seriously. I love it when guys are man enough to support feminism. real men aren't troubled by women being equal to them. I feel that the men who want to "keep women in their place" so to speak are terrified that once women are truly equal to men, they'll have no identity.

I'm totally down with feminism. I've never wanted to follow the "traditional" roles for women (marriage, kidsetc. not saying this is a bad thing though, just not for me), and I've always wanted to carve my own way. I remember in first year of uni, my professor bluntly told me that I should expect to be knocked back by men at every turn. She was actually rather inspirational to me, she ended up leaving the university over a pay dispute with the school (they refused to promote her, but they promoted a few male lecturers that year). I missed her quite a bit last year. Anyway, she pretty much helped solidify my determination to succeed. I think we need more strong women like her. She knew what to fight over and when to fight about it. Its a sad fact that the majority view is that equality has been achieved. it hasnt. what has happened is that inequality now occurs in far sublter ways than before. a few examples - hidden differences in pay for men and women in the same jobs, unequal pensions, low charges/convictions on rape cases, and like you said, the way the sexes are portrayed in the media.

oh, also:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=6319689&blogID=425933063&Mytoken=D2658A8A-892D-479C-BD1F2AA37DDEFEFE14994971

this is incredibly interesting. there's this girl at school who keeps talking to me, and mentioned that she was a feminist about an hour ago.

i do consider myself a feminist as well. i think the true problem in this country, though, is that people don't truly buy into equality. how many places have you applied to for a job that say "we are an equal opportunity employer"? isn't there something completely unjust about having to make such a statement? the same goes for things such as Affirmative Action, which, in my opinion, is doing nothing to further the blatant racism in which we tend to let slide in this country. it's truly unfortunate.

about what that girl/women said in your class, though, lex? completely idiotic and senseless. aren't we all, male/female, gay/straight, black/white, created in the same manner? doesn't that automatically make us equal, since at creation we're given nothing different from each other besides an extra chromosome? it makes no sense to me that people would feel another way, and it's people who are completely content with their position in society, albeit a black male or a white women, that will continue to hinder our chances at total equality.

on the other end of the spectrum, it's the extremist of any theological or philosophical movement that give people a sour taste. and honestly, it's completely understandable. if a person is continuously blaming a race, or a sex, or a religion for their own personal problems, then they're not truly grasping the absolute concepts of their movement. if you strive to be better, how can you claim that all you want is equality?

i rambled a bit here, but the point is, the person who said that is a fucking idiot. we in this country, and throughout the world, really need to have a sense of balance if we're truly to have equality. is that possible? i'd like to think so, but i'm not sure.

bitches have one place, thats the kitchen to make me food

hahahah, i wanted to say it but wasnt willing to take the backlash.



just kidding around though

Oh Josh. If I made you dinner it would have some arsenic in it.

The girl replied to me and said 'When I say that men and women are not equal I mean physically, we are not the same. I think it is fair for some one to chose a man for a construction position over a woman, assuming that man is a better physical fit for the job. I really think it just comes down to assessing each individual in each setting.

Last semester I was in English 1A (201A now I think) and I wrote a 10 page report on gender inequality. I am well aware of the areas in our society where discrimination still exists, there are many of them. However I am also aware now of times when we go over board to try and make things "equal".

So again, when I said men and women are not equal, I did not mean one gender was better than the other, I simply meant we are different.'

She still pisses me off.

im just kidding i love bitches or should i say women

...

hope that dosent come off as weird or anything

I hope it's just rubbing it's belly...and not doing something else.

Hahah, I'm so confused.