The Death Penalty

Just curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this. How do you feel about the death penalty? Are you for or against it? Personally, the idea of the state killing somebody is creepy to me. Sometimes I read those websites that list all of the death row inmates in any given state and shows their picture with an explanation of their crime. It's so weird to know that all of those people are going to die at the hands of the government.

It's a bit like 'Oh this guy killed someone, let's kill him too because it will solve it'. Giving someone the death penalty makes the judge no worse than the actual person who committed the murder to me, it's all about how strong the crime though i suppose. I know people won't agree with me but yeah it is creepy.

I think it would be more torment to be locked up for 20 years and serving that exact amount, you'd have a lot of time to reflect on what you have done. I think there's an Alexisonfire video where one of the members plays a prison inmate who is given the opportunity to run out the front door but he turns around and walks back to his cell to live off the rest of his sentence, powerful stuff but it's pretty true.

The death penalty is so archaic. I find it laughable that some places still think it's a viable option, but then I'm a pussy left wing pacifist red liberal commie so what the hell would I know.

Supporting the death penalty is like supporting a program where all rapists are raped by the long dick of the law. Or, better yet, a law where anyone caught selling drugs gets punished by having the state sell drugs to them. Or how about where someone caught burgling has their house burgled by the government?*

I mean... just... wtf. It's so childish.





* (ok, so it's a lot more complex than any of these examples, but well... fuck you)

So, to play devil's advocate- you guys (those of you who are against the death penalty) have no problem paying your tax money to keep people who have committed crimes punishable by death alive? What would you suggest the government do with criminals instead? It's easy to say you're against the way things are now, but harder to come up with something better.

I don't mind having my money keep the criminals alive, better than my money used for killing them. The government pays for so many things, whatever if it's criminals.

I think the death penalty is awful and barbaric. I guess it's coming a long way from burning witches at the stake, but the idea is still there. No one has any right to take a persons life, even if the criminal did it, it's no our place (and most certainly not the states) to take their life in return.

i have problems with certain types of sickos. people who rape/kill children.
in those cases i think the government should just pay me to execute them.
i wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

i don't think it really solves much but the family/friends of the victim would probably beg to differ

say they raped and killed your mother or little sister or brother or father or anyone you're close to.
most would want that person dead.

that's part of the reason i think it's still around, to serve "justice" for the mourning family.

don't kill people. not anyone ever.

laurendelore wrote:

Personally, the idea of the state killing somebody is creepy to me.

This. Exactly.

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

have no problem paying your tax money to keep people who have committed crimes punishable by death alive? What would you suggest the government do with criminals instead? It's easy to say you're against the way things are now, but harder to come up with something better.

The death penalty is actually very expensive. All of the litigation thats involved takes up a lot of resources. Not to mention that if someone is mentally or physically unhealthy we have to pay to make them "better" because its illegal to execute sick people.
The fact is that there are way to many people incarcerated in this country. We spend far too much money imprisoning people for nonviolent crimes. Not to mention that our justice system is based on punishment, not rehabilitation, so we have a high rate of recitivism.
I don't think its all that hard to come up with something better than the American criminal justice system. Its kind of a joke.

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

laurendelore wrote:

Personally, the idea of the state killing somebody is creepy to me.

This. Exactly.

the idea of anyone killing someone is creepy.

I think I'm a little bizzar, but I am ok with the death penalty as long as there is a shit load of evidence proving that the person did it, and as long as the person deserves it. If some drug dealer kills another drug dealer for something, then I don't necessarily believe they should be killed, because the person who got killed probably deserved it anyway. However if a bunch of gang members are doing a drive by shooting and shoot some kid just walking down the street, fuck him, the judge should be allowed to physically rip his head off.

BradGodfrey wrote:

I think I'm a little bizzar, but I am ok with the death penalty as long as there is a shit load of evidence proving that the person did it, and as long as the person deserves it. If some drug dealer kills another drug dealer for something, then I don't necessarily believe they should be killed, because the person who got killed probably deserved it anyway. However if a bunch of gang members are doing a drive by shooting and shoot some kid just walking down the street, fuck him, the judge should be allowed to physically rip his head off.

I was gunna post, but then I read this. And yeah, pretty much exactly what I was going to say.

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

laurendelore wrote:

Personally, the idea of the state killing somebody is creepy to me.

This. Exactly.

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

have no problem paying your tax money to keep people who have committed crimes punishable by death alive? What would you suggest the government do with criminals instead? It's easy to say you're against the way things are now, but harder to come up with something better.

The death penalty is actually very expensive. All of the litigation thats involved takes up a lot of resources. Not to mention that if someone is mentally or physically unhealthy we have to pay to make them "better" because its illegal to execute sick people.
The fact is that there are way to many people incarcerated in this country. We spend far too much money imprisoning people for nonviolent crimes. Not to mention that our justice system is based on punishment, not rehabilitation, so we have a high rate of recitivism.
I don't think its all that hard to come up with something better than the American criminal justice system. Its kind of a joke.

I didn't say it wasn't expensive, I'm just asking about how the money, YOUR money, is being used. I'm just curious to see how people feel about it - it's not necessarily my opinion.

I do agree with you on the second half of what you said, but you still haven't given me something better.

This is where the idea of bringing back gladiators comes in!

All death row inmates duke it out in a slick futuristic arena for a chance to win their freedom by having auto race, but usually the requirements for being set free are incredibly difficult, so no one will ever be freed. It should be on pay-per-view each week, have its own line of merchandise such as trading cards and t-shirts of everyone's favorite Inmate. It would help boost the economy because everyone would pay to see someone get esploded or kersplashed.


They should make a movie like that.





but seriously, I am for/against the death penalty, just depends on the crime that was committed. Some are more deserving that others.

I'm done now.

I don't very much believe in an eye for an eye. Also, it's not like it's even an eye for an eye. Oh we'll hold you hear for at least ten years then put you to a peaceful death.

The most that's coming from that is the fear of death, which does not entice me anyways. I am all for everyone getting two squares a day and a lot of fucking boredom.

Though, I can honestly say that more than likely someone kills my family, I'll want that bastard dead. Doesn't make it right.

As for taxes, they get like $240 out of me a year, then give me at least 40 of that back. A couple more bucks probably won't break me. It's medicare that kicks my ass in the taxes.




Law and Order gave me the creeps one episode because NY and LA were fighting for the case because LA had the death penalty.

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

laurendelore wrote:

Personally, the idea of the state killing somebody is creepy to me.

This. Exactly.

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

have no problem paying your tax money to keep people who have committed crimes punishable by death alive? What would you suggest the government do with criminals instead? It's easy to say you're against the way things are now, but harder to come up with something better.

The death penalty is actually very expensive. All of the litigation thats involved takes up a lot of resources. Not to mention that if someone is mentally or physically unhealthy we have to pay to make them "better" because its illegal to execute sick people.
The fact is that there are way to many people incarcerated in this country. We spend far too much money imprisoning people for nonviolent crimes. Not to mention that our justice system is based on punishment, not rehabilitation, so we have a high rate of recitivism.
I don't think its all that hard to come up with something better than the American criminal justice system. Its kind of a joke.

I didn't say it wasn't expensive, I'm just asking about how the money, YOUR money, is being used. I'm just curious to see how people feel about it - it's not necessarily my opinion.

I do agree with you on the second half of what you said, but you still haven't given me something better.

Better in which way? Cheaper? More effective punishments? Something more deterring? I don't quite follow. What does a punishment have to be to be "better" than the death penalty?

1. Cost. I'm no expert, but litigation is monsterously expensive and death row inmates are often held for many years anyway, so capital punishment being "cheap" is an absolute myth. Using YOUR money to keep criminals alive (because they'd die without it? what?) is akin to a "DEY TUK OUR JEBS!" arguement in immigration, in that it's just a bit daft and fails to take into account how the system actually works.

2..Effectiveness. I'm not sure, but murder and other crimes carrying the death penalty don't seem to be any less common in states that have the death penalty compared with states that don't have the death penalty. This doesn't mean that incarceration is any more effective than the death penalty, but....

3. Morality. Allowing the state the power to kill people seems a bit wrong, especially since Ghandi so helpfully pointed out that "an eye for an eye and the whole world would be blind". This, coupled with the lack of any extra effectiveness over generic incarceration leaves me thinking... "why bother killing these people?"

If the death penalty is expensive, ineffective and immoral, what makes it "better" as a punishment than just imprisoning people in the first place? What makes the death penalty the "best" option anyway?

Oh, yeah. So that the blood thirsty families of the dead can be offered some consolation for losing their loved one. Well, it comes as no surprise to me that they want to see "dat nigger dat did it swingin from a tree", but then doesn't everyone get angry at bad shit happening to them? The families of the victims want the criminal torn apart having being raped and set on fire, but I don't see the state allowing the death penalty by shredding-fire-rape. Angry people baying for blood shouldn't be involved with decisions concerning people's lives, because of course they want to see criminals killed. I mean, duh.

Conversely though, one school of thought would rather criminals rot in their cells than be killed. They think it's more cruel to keep people alive in perpetual boredom than to just kill them, quite the opposite of people desperate to see 'em killed. Just thought I'd mention that.

By "better" I simply meant that everyone complains about our penal system but fails to argue what they'd rather see. People do things that the government says are illegal and deserving of punishment. It's easy to say you don't want people to be killed or you want more rehabilitation or deterrent efforts in the penal system, but to actually figure out a way to have that happen is a little more difficult.

I am against the death penalty. Always. I was just asking to see if anyone could actually come up with something plausible that would make them content (I know I can't).

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

By "better" I simply meant that everyone complains about our penal system but fails to argue what they'd rather see. People do things that the government says are illegal and deserving of punishment. It's easy to say you don't want people to be killed or you want more rehabilitation or deterrent efforts in the penal system, but to actually figure out a way to have that happen is a little more difficult.

I am against the death penalty. Always. I was just asking to see if anyone could actually come up with something plausible that would make them content (I know I can't).

Yeah I understand you're just playing devil's advocate

Ironically, I think one of the first steps to a better penal system would be the abolition of the death penalty. As for further penal reform... I honestly don't know enough about what there is already in the US, as I'm somewhat more concerned with the UK system.

As for making families content with a punishment short of death... Well, I'm stumped. There's no pleasing some people*.






*I'll just add that I mean this as a joke.

Eye for an eye and we'd all be blind.

Ross wrote:

Ghandi so helpfully pointed out that "an eye for an eye and the whole world would be blind".

Fuck.

Supporters:

Hypothetically, if Dick Cheney were convicted ordering prisoners to be tortured, should he receive the death penalty?
What about Ed Gein for torturing people in his own home?

God damn it.
I just wrote a big long post and when I clicked send, it went to one of those fucking "page could not be found' things. And now I don't really feel like rewriting it all.
But...

Ross wrote:

2..Effectiveness. I'm not sure, but murder and other crimes carrying the death penalty don't seem to be any less common in states that have the death penalty compared with states that don't have the death penalty. This doesn't mean that incarceration is any more effective than the death penalty, but....

You're right. Its not effective. We kill more people than any other state in the union in Texas. Our governors brag about how many people were executed under them to get votes. Its pretty fuckin disgusting. But we still are somewhere in the top ten when it comes to violent crime. Or at least were were in 2004 according to my poli sci book. \

And I don't think that its necessary to come up with some elaborate replacement for the death penalty. "Something better" would be to just not execute people. Just don't do it. Period.
There are a plethora of other problems with the criminal justice system but that would be a big step in the right direction.
And I feel like I'm stating the obvious by saying that the "war on drugs" is a huge contributor to the overcrowding of prisons. People go into prison drug dealers and come out hardened disillusioned criminals, and end up back in jail because with a felony on their record what are they supposed to do but resort to crime to make ends meet? Not that I'm trying to justify a criminal lifestyle, thats just a big reason for the rate of recitivism in our prison system.
Also, treatment of drug addicts rather than just throwing them in the pin. Job training. Blahblahblah and so on.
Of course, if we look at it from a broader scope if we had a better education system and social safety net less people would be criminals but thats a whole other issue.

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

God damn it.
I just wrote a big long post and when I clicked send, it went to one of those fucking "page could not be found' things. And now I don't really feel like rewriting it all.
But...

Ross wrote:

2..Effectiveness. I'm not sure, but murder and other crimes carrying the death penalty don't seem to be any less common in states that have the death penalty compared with states that don't have the death penalty. This doesn't mean that incarceration is any more effective than the death penalty, but....

You're right. Its not effective. We kill more people than any other state in the union in Texas. Our governors brag about how many people were executed under them to get votes. Its pretty fuckin disgusting. But we still are somewhere in the top ten when it comes to violent crime. Or at least were were in 2004 according to my poli sci book. \

And I don't think that its necessary to come up with some elaborate replacement for the death penalty. "Something better" would be to just not execute people. Just don't do it. Period.
There are a plethora of other problems with the criminal justice system but that would be a big step in the right direction.
And I feel like I'm stating the obvious by saying that the "war on drugs" is a huge contributor to the overcrowding of prisons. People go into prison drug dealers and come out hardened disillusioned criminals, and end up back in jail because with a felony on their record what are they supposed to do but resort to crime to make ends meet? Not that I'm trying to justify a criminal lifestyle, thats just a big reason for the rate of recitivism in our prison system.
Also, treatment of drug addicts rather than just throwing them in the pin. Job training. Blahblahblah and so on.
Of course, if we look at it from a broader scope if we had a better education system and social safety net less people would be criminals but thats a whole other issue.

The same happened to me.


The gist was that the best way to reform our prison system would be some good fashioned social reform.


How about Ted?

My bad.

Ted Bundy, how about him.