"Soldiers are heroes."

Discuss. They're fucking not.

It depends on the situation.

They're not. I mean, just because someone joins the military doesn't make them a hero.
I'm not saying I don't respect the sacrifices that people make to defend my country or whatever, but let's face it, at this point if you join the military you're not doing it to defend anyone you're doing it to further the cause of imperialistic occupation of the middle east.

But if you say anything like that here you get some serious shit because people are so adamant about 'supporting the troops.' Of course I don't want any of our soldiers to die, I don't want them to suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, I don't want their families to suffer because of the stupid decisions our government makes...but I'm not going to praise them for going to fight in an unjust war either. And I don't understand why the lives of our soldiers are more valuable than the lives of Afghan civilians.

Yeah... but what about the guys who liberated big parts of the world during the world wars?

I wouldn't say all soldiers are heroes, they have to earn that status, just like anyone else. for example: I think a soldier who prevents and IED from blowing up a mosque is a hero. but I don't think a soldier who kills without mercy is a hero.

iffy topic. I support the troops, and the general idea of why my country is in Afghanistan, but I'm not sure if we're approaching the situation the right way.

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

And I don't understand why the lives of our soldiers are more valuable than the lives of Afghan civilians.

Or, a thousand. It really bugs me, 'cause whenever a Canadian dies, it's all over the news, but hundreds of Afghans die, and they're like, "Oh, it's just collateral damage."

Also, I hate that people think disagreeing with a war is being unsupportive of the troops.

I don't agree with the generalization (both ways), and yes, some are absolutely fucking despicable, but you have to acknowledge the fact that most of them are WILLING to die for everyone else. That's pretty admirable, don't you think?

StoolPigeon wrote:

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

And I don't understand why the lives of our soldiers are more valuable than the lives of Afghan civilians.

Or, a thousand. It really bugs me, 'cause whenever a Canadian dies, it's all over the news, but hundreds of Afghans die, and they're like, "Oh, it's just collateral damage."

Also, I hate that people think disagreeing with a war is being unsupportive of the troops.

I can't agree with you more. The news always has a 20 min program on a soldier who died, but just brush off a car bomb that killed 5 and injured more people.

Tim wrote:

Yeah... but what about the guys who liberated big parts of the world during the world wars?

Yeah, I'm referring to current soldiers.
Not people who fought in wars that we got involved in for a legitimate reason.

Anthony wrote:

I don't agree with the generalization (both ways), and yes, some are absolutely fucking despicable, but you have to acknowledge the fact that most of them are WILLING to die for everyone else. That's pretty admirable, don't you think?

I don't know.
I don't think being willing to die for everyone else is what motivates most people to join the army. And I don't think being willing to die for a cause you don't understand is necessarily a good thing.
Some, maybe.
Most, no.
At least that hasn't been my experience with anyone I know who has served/is serving. The people I know who joined the military either came from military families and didn't really give it a second thought, or they didn't do very well in high school and didn't want to go to college, or they thought they didn't have any other options because of financial or other situations that they were in.

I'm not saying that I don't like soldiers or that there are none who have honorable or noble intentions...I'm well aware that we need to have a military and that some people really do just want to protect their country and blah blah blah patriotic crap...I just haven't met any that fit that description.

go to hell, all of you... you dont know shit. i come from a military family and i have nothing but respect for them. their not like 'yeah lets kill fucking Arabs' their ppl like you and me. If you ever met a military person you'd know none of them glorify it or think its cool. All i've ever heard is 'go to to school.' a big finger to you Aaron and this bull shit thread

The only thing I have to say is that all the kids that I know personally that went into the military are people who couldn't get into college, needed money fast or broke up with their girlfriend, etc. None of them joined to defend their country.

That doesn't mean I don't respect them by any means. I would never have what it takes to sign up.

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

Tim wrote:

Yeah... but what about the guys who liberated big parts of the world during the world wars?

Yeah, I'm referring to current soldiers.
Not people who fought in wars that we got involved in for a legitimate reason.

That doesn't make them anything less of a soldier.

I respect the military to the extent that I respect the individuals in it. It's tough work and obviously dangerous, not something I would ever want to be involved in. There's good and bad folk in every walk of life, obviously the vast majority of folk didn't join up because they jumped at the chance of killing "fucking arabs". They're genuine folk there for genuine good reasons that they obviously believe in.

But I still fucking hate the military and everything it stands for. Fighting for our country? Give me a fucking break, more like fighting over other countries and their resources. Guns, violence, enforced "peace"... Surely the beautiful western civilization that apparently we're all part of is beyond that crap?

Apparently not. But then I'm a pacifist which makes me naive and foolish, so what the hell do I know?

I especially don't know why the UK bothers to have it's own military. There's poor people about, and we just blew £45bazillion quid on a new submarine to "DEFEND THE NATION". From what? France? Spanish Armada 2? THOSE DAMN GOOKS?

In conclusion:

Western civilization is bullshit and the money could be much better spent elsewhere for the most part. But, I'd be naive to believe that having no military is possible at this stage therefore I think it should probably be scaled down and specialised. Otherwise, soldiers are generally good people although I think the term "heroes" might be more than a tad excessive.

Plus, let's face it: massive guns and machines are really fucking cool.

Also, this is an opinion based on little knowledge of the military other than what we're told on the news. Much like everyone else here.

I'd agree that not all are heroes, but a lot are.

Whatever the reason is that they've joined, most of them are in a shitty position doing shitty stuff. I'd call them heroes just for signing up, knowing what they're going into. Months away from your family, and even if it's not an active thought when they're signing up, in the back of their heads they know their serving their country AND defending it.

This comes from someone who is not necessarily from a military family, just all of my Uncles have been in one of the armed services.

So pretty much what I'm saying is, I'm not going to pick and choose. I know in other countries, like Scotland, when a soldier dies there's time taken out for that... but it's not like that in the states, or to say I haven't seen anything on TV about our soldiers dying for a long time even though the numbers are still rising.

pintsogin wrote:

go to hell, all of you... you dont know shit. i come from a military family and i have nothing but respect for them. their not like 'yeah lets kill fucking Arabs' their ppl like you and me. If you ever met a military person you'd know none of them glorify it or think its cool. All i've ever heard is 'go to to school.' a big finger to you Aaron and this bull shit thread

Whoooooa, every circumstance is different. I just hate when people who go to war are instantly heroes, not that they can't earn the status of a hero.

Also, being British, I see things a loooot differently to Americans, mainly because our country basically just goes to war for the hell of it, and did a lot of shit in the past when it comes down to it. I wasn't bitching on your family or anything, man.

I just remembered; my gran told me that my grandad threw away his war medals after WWII. He hated the memory of it and was disgusted by the whole thing, if I recall correctly.

Essentially I feel that it's difficult to support something when those involved are disgusted by their own actions.

Aaron wrote:

pintsogin wrote:

go to hell, all of you... you dont know shit. i come from a military family and i have nothing but respect for them. their not like 'yeah lets kill fucking Arabs' their ppl like you and me. If you ever met a military person you'd know none of them glorify it or think its cool. All i've ever heard is 'go to to school.' a big finger to you Aaron and this bull shit thread

Whoooooa, every circumstance is different. I just hate when people who go to war are instantly heroes, not that they can't earn the status of a hero.

Also, being British, I see things a loooot differently to Americans, mainly because our country basically just goes to war for the hell of it, and did a lot of shit in the past when it comes down to it. I wasn't bitching on your family or anything, man.

you come off sounding like one of those ignorant punk kids who thinks that everyone in the military is some imperial, fascist. Maybe ppl do call them heroes but they don't like that. their like fire fighters, they usually respond 'its a job'

and i grew up around British ppl so i understand where your coming from. We go to war every decade so i wouldn't be surprised if we had a more tame idea of patriotism in the future.

Well I didn't mean to, sorry.

It's just you hear here on the news every fucking day about somebody who's died in Afghanistan and yet the innocents that died in the explosion aren't mentioned whatsoever. Also, nobody had posted in this section of the forum for maybe two weeks, so I figured this would make for some fruitful discussion.

And my first post was blunt because I hate writing huge posts incase nobody replies, so I just put my opinion real bluntly and got everyone else to start the conversation, instead of there just being replies to my first post when I obviously know jackshit about the American situation, especially.

Tim wrote:

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

Tim wrote:

Yeah... but what about the guys who liberated big parts of the world during the world wars?

Yeah, I'm referring to current soldiers.
Not people who fought in wars that we got involved in for a legitimate reason.

That doesn't make them anything less of a soldier.

What doesn't make them any less of a soldier?

pintsogin wrote:

If you ever met a military person you'd know none of them glorify it or think its cool.

Um, I don't think anyone said that.
Also, I don't think anyone alleged that soldiers say anything like, "let's kill arabs" or whatever. Defensive much?

i know a few dudes in the marine corps and they all bust each others balls to no end if one of them is wearing something that says USMC, or anything military related.

Most i know who've joined the army did it because it's a job they don't need to go to school for, so calling them a hero or an evil human being seems absurd to me. There are however a few who get all wet over the idea of serving their country and wiping their tears with the union jack, a little stupid in my opinion but it doesnt make them a bad person.

Conclusion: i'm not bold enough to have an absolute opinion on the UK's and USA's foreign policy but simply debating whether or not soldiers are heroes is rediculous.

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

pintsogin wrote:

If you ever met a military person you'd know none of them glorify it or think its cool.

Um, I don't think anyone said that.
Also, I don't think anyone alleged that soldiers say anything like, "let's kill arabs" or whatever. Defensive much?

yep, from Aarons first post you could assume anything and being drunk after the menzingers didnt help.

thats classy pints, get drunk and defend the glory of the flag

It's the American way.