Vegans And Some Issues

Is it vegan to support stem cell research?

Is it vegan to support abortion?

Is it vegan to have pets?

I think that everyone sees things on different levels. There are definitely people out there that take things to extremes [PETA, a lot of the time] and don't believe in having animals as pets, but I wouldn't say it's a majority of vegans that think that way at all.

What about stem cell research? There has been research with the regression of cell done on mice.

Abortion... well it's the same question of "is it a live, valid human life?"

Veganism is a personal decision to me. I know people who are vegan for health reasons, people who do it for animal rights reasons, etc. Flu shots are not vegan, but I know people with autoimmune diseases that really need to get this shot. So sometimes decisions people have to make for their own health may not be vegan, but to me it's doing what's best for yourself and respecting the things around you. The reason I have pets is so give them a better life, the mice and rats I would buy are the ones that are usually just fed to snakes, adopting our dogs from shelters, etc. The main issue of animal rights that vegans have is the exploitation of animals, and I don't think the way I treat my pets and care for them is exploiting them in any way.

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

lex wrote:

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

what about cancer research and stuff like that?

saving human lifes by playing with animal lifes.. is that good?

lex wrote:

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

Do you eat eggs?

Joaquin_Honest wrote:

Is it vegan to support stem cell research?

Is it vegan to support abortion?

Is it vegan to have pets?

ive had mixed feelings about all these issues. i used to strongly oppose both stem cell and abortion because i thought "why bring life and then destroy it?" but with stem cell, so many lives could be saved and so many people could walk again.
i think abortion is both a woman's right issue AND a "baby's right" issues. i would never want some man in the government telling me what i cant do with my body, and i think if someone is mentally able to deal with having an abortion then who has the right to stop them. This is only for early abortions of course.
and i have pets. im not completely vegan, but i have many many pets and i cant imagine life without them. i do know that getting them from petsmart or petco is supporting the animal breeding industry, but i feel like some dumb kid is gonna buy them and end up squishing them. i dont know, i worked with a dog and cat rescue at petsmarts and petcos and i never witnessed any cruelty at the particular ones i was at, but im sure it has happened somewhere. i hate that people make huge profits off over breeding animals, but the machine is never going to be stopped. i steal fish from petsmart whenever i can, but thats not too often

i didn't know red bull was vegan until i read tom's blog and looked it up.

random information, yeah.. so what?!

First of all, I don't think any of these things have to do with being vegan unless you happen to be vegan as the result of being completely and totally pro-life for everything.
I support stem cell research and abortion, and I own a cat but sometimes I do feel really strange about it. We got her because if we didn't pick her out from the shelter they would have put her to sleep since she had been returned two times already. She has no front claws, so it's not like she could survive in the wild anymore. If the animal is given everything it needs and treated well, I don't see the problem.

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

and I own a cat but sometimes I do feel really strange about it. We got her because if we didn't pick her out from the shelter they would have put her to sleep since she had been returned two times already. She has no front claws, so it's not like she could survive in the wild anymore. If the animal is given everything it needs and treated well, I don't see the problem.

thats what i think. if i were to set my geckos, frogs, hermit crabs (yes, i have crabs) dog, ,or fish free, they would surely die.

i don't know about the first two but the third i think its fine to have a pet as long as you treat them well. I think as a vegan it would be more proper to pick one off the street and take care of it as opposed to going to a breeder or something.

AnnaIsAFuckingStoolPigeon wrote:

lex wrote:

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

Do you eat eggs?

No. The reason I don't eat eggs isn't because some of them are embryos, it's because of the way that chickens are treated in the process of getting their eggs. So it's kind of two separate issues.

pintsogin wrote:

i don't know about the first two but the third i think its fine to have a pet as long as you treat them well. I think as a vegan it would be more proper to pick one off the street and take care of it as opposed to going to a breeder or something.

Yeah, I also think that even if you're NOT vegan it's more proper to get an animal from anywhere but a breeder. I'm not vegan, but there have been times when I've felt a sense of inferiority from super elite vegans, as if I don't care about animals as much as they do. It makes me insecure, like maybe somewhere deep down inside that's true? I'd like to think that I care about animals just as much as the next person, if not more. All of my animals I've had (and I've had a lot) have come from the shelter, and I found my pet rabbit on the street and took her in. I donate as much money as I can to the Best Friends Animal Society every month and I've volunteered at shelters. My grandfather was a veterinarian, and I've always been taught that taking care of animals is a moral obligation as a human being. I may eat meat sometimes, but I feel like I do a lot more for animals than most people. I think it's become hard for me to see meat as an animal anymore, because eating meat is something I've been so heavily raised with my entire life. I know that's probably not a good thing, but I'm tired of feeling like I'm being judged for it.

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

First of all, I don't think any of these things have to do with being vegan unless you happen to be vegan as the result of being completely and totally pro-life for everything.
I support stem cell research and abortion, and I own a cat but sometimes I do feel really strange about it. We got her because if we didn't pick her out from the shelter they would have put her to sleep since she had been returned two times already. She has no front claws, so it's not like she could survive in the wild anymore. If the animal is given everything it needs and treated well, I don't see the problem.

The alternatives to embryonic stem cell research was first tested out on animals. That would be contradictory to vegan beliefs would it not?

Abortion is the general questioning of taking a (pseudo-)life. So that's a question on if vegans are against the taking of life for food, would they also be against the taking of life as far as abortions go (with, of course, the exceptions of when one or both lives are in peril upon the birth.)

There is no one vegan doctrine. It's up to the individual. Veganism is not a movement, so there are not really any set rules, apart from the whole "no consumption of animal products" thing. As far as I see it, you can be vegan in diet but have pets or whatever. Stuff like that isn't set in stone.

I can't really relate the issue of abortion to why I'm vegan because I feel differently about the two. I know it's possible to survive without eating animals, so I see it as pointless to confine them in cages and slaughter them. I don't think anyone truly supports abortion, it's mostly about having the choice to do with your body what you want. Just like people have the right to eat meat. I don't consider abortion 'taking a life', or murder, and I think you'd find the process of slaughtering an animal much worse than an abortion (at least in the early stages). PBA is a whole different story to me.

Joaquin_Honest wrote:

hastekilledcreativity wrote:

First of all, I don't think any of these things have to do with being vegan unless you happen to be vegan as the result of being completely and totally pro-life for everything.
I support stem cell research and abortion, and I own a cat but sometimes I do feel really strange about it. We got her because if we didn't pick her out from the shelter they would have put her to sleep since she had been returned two times already. She has no front claws, so it's not like she could survive in the wild anymore. If the animal is given everything it needs and treated well, I don't see the problem.

The alternatives to embryonic stem cell research was first tested out on animals. That would be contradictory to vegan beliefs would it not?

Abortion is the general questioning of taking a (pseudo-)life. So that's a question on if vegans are against the taking of life for food, would they also be against the taking of life as far as abortions go (with, of course, the exceptions of when one or both lives are in peril upon the birth.)

I am vegan for mostly health reasons. I am also vegan because I am against the treatment of animals who are born to be food for people. For a long time I ate things that were hunted/caught by people I knew. I ate cheese that was made from cows that I knew were being treated fairly. The way I feel about eating that stuff now is basically that it isn't natural. I know that for a lot of people it's completely natural, but I've learned too much about how our bodies work and what our bodies are made to process to keep eating that stuff.

I am against animal testing, but that does not mean I am against any results that are found by testing on animals. I would honestly rather they test on people, at least they can give consent, but they don't. A lot of scientific advancement uses animal testing to save human lives, and I don't agree with that at all... if it was really up to me, we'd stop all of this scientific advancement, I think it does more harm than good (hello longer life expectancy, nursing homes, overpopulated planet).

As for abortions, I consider this a separate issue. When I think about abortions, the first thing that comes to my mind is health and quality of life. I think forcing someone to keep a fetus in them can be detrimental to everyone involved.

Indeed.

I merely ask because I witnessed an argument between two vegans about these issues.

lex wrote:

AnnaIsAFuckingStoolPigeon wrote:

lex wrote:

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

Do you eat eggs?

No. The reason I don't eat eggs isn't because some of them are embryos, it's because of the way that chickens are treated in the process of getting their eggs. So it's kind of two separate issues.

Some of them are embryos...?

And that makes sense, then.

AnnaIsAFuckingStoolPigeon wrote:

lex wrote:

AnnaIsAFuckingStoolPigeon wrote:

lex wrote:

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

Do you eat eggs?

No. The reason I don't eat eggs isn't because some of them are embryos, it's because of the way that chickens are treated in the process of getting their eggs. So it's kind of two separate issues.

Some of them are embryos...?

And that makes sense, then.

Yeah, if you see a red spot when you crack the egg then it was going to be a baby chicken.

Well the main reason I'm a vegan is because I believe that it's wrong to exploit animals (people too, obviously) and it's wrong to end a life if you don't have to. I also have environmental and health-based motivations. Currently eggs fit under exploitation for me, because chickens are disgustingly mistreated for the most part, but also under health (family history of high blood pressure means I need to keep away from saturated fats). But all that aside....eating eggs strikes me as being icky.

There's more to it than that, but going by this logic, I'm not against abortion because no one is being exploited and I'm not convinced that life begins at conception, although I know pro-life vegans. I'm okay with having pets (unless they're being abused) because I know that that isn't really exploitation, and...honestly I don't know enough about stem cell research to have a real standing on it.

Animal testing is creepily inaccurate and the FDA has a shady history of pulling things from the market and/or putting things on the market anyway (artificial sweeteners are a good example) despite what the animal tests said, using the defense that animal testing isn't entirely accurate, but they still use it. But, of course, it's also exploitation of animals and I think better methods should be developed and used.

I'm not saying all vegans feel like this, just my two cents. If anyone actually read all of that, you win at life.

I'm totally baffled as to what abortion or stem cell research would have to do with veganism.

Vegans are agaisnt the exploitation and consumption of animals. It's not a human rights issue like the above topics.

lex wrote:

AnnaIsAFuckingStoolPigeon wrote:

lex wrote:

AnnaIsAFuckingStoolPigeon wrote:

lex wrote:

And I support abortion, it's a clump of cells to me. I don't think it can feel pain. But animal testing is just wrong to me, test chemicals and cosmetics on them because they only have one tear duct and can't wash it away. I'm sorry but if someone wants their soap, or make up or whatever that bad then let's stick that shit in their eye.

Do you eat eggs?

No. The reason I don't eat eggs isn't because some of them are embryos, it's because of the way that chickens are treated in the process of getting their eggs. So it's kind of two separate issues.

Some of them are embryos...?

And that makes sense, then.

Yeah, if you see a red spot when you crack the egg then it was going to be a baby chicken.

Hm... I've never actually seen a red spot on/in the egg before... But I thought that the whole point of eggs is that they aren't fertilized...

Yeah, people make mistakes and some slip by the inspection process.